Drawing 5356 from 9.5 to 0.8 mm w/o annealing

Hi,
I work for a company that manufactures aluminum welding wire. Our products are MIG and TIG welding wire 0.8 – 4.8 mm (0.0315 to 0.1890 inches) diameter; 4043, 4047, 5183 and 5356 alloys.
We are trying to eliminate wire annealing between breakdown machines (9.52 mm to 3.18 mm) (0.3748 to 0.1252 inches) and intermediate machines (3.2 mm to 0.8 mm) (0.1260 to 0.0315 inches). We do not have problem drawing wire from 3.2 to 1.6 mm (0.1260 to 0.0630 inches) without intermediate annealing. But when we tried out reducing wire diameter to 1.2 mm (0.0472 inches) diameter and less the drawing process is inconsistent, sometimes successful but sometimes with too many wire breaks.
We know that some welding wire manufacturers are drawing 5356 alloy from 9.52 to 0.8 mm (0.3748 to 0.0315) inches without annealing.
Can somebody, please, tell me what we could try out in order to skip annealing process for wire diameter 1.2 mm (0.0472 inches) and less?

Thank you in advance.

The chemistry by % weight of these aluminum alloys is as follows:

4043 Aluminum Alloy

Silicon* 4.5 to 6.0
Iron 0.80
Copper 0.30
Titanium 0.20
Zinc 0.10
Manganese 0.05
Magnesium 0.05
Beryllium 0.0008 (8ppm)
Other elements 0.05 each max.
Other elements 0.15 total max.
Aluminum Balance



4047 Aluminum Alloy

Silicon* 11 to 13
Copper 0.30
Magnesium 0.10
Iron 0.80
Zinc 0.20
Manganese 0.15
Aluminum Balance



5183 Aluminum Alloy

Silicon* 0.40
Iron 0.40
Copper 0.10
Beryllium 0.0008 (8ppm)
Manganese 0.50 to 1.0
Magnesium 4.3 to 5.2
Zinc 0.25
Titanium 0.15
Chromium 0.05 to 0.25
Other elements 0.05 each max.
other elements 0.15 total max.
Aluminum Balance



5356 Aluminum Alloy

Silicon* 0.25
Iron 0.40
Copper 0.10
Beryllium 0.0008 (8ppm)
Manganese 0.50 to 0.20
Magnesium 4.5 to 5.5
Zinc 0.10
Titanium 0.06 to 0.20
Chromium 0.05 to 0.20
Other elements 0.05 each max.
other elements 0.15 total max.
Aluminum Balance


Note that alloy 5356 has the lowest silicon content and I imagine that is why some of your competitors can draw that alloy without intermediate annealing. There are some very talented engineers with a lot of wire drawing experience that watch this Forum and possibly they might have some ideas about drafting but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the high silicon content 4000 series alloys.

Sincerely,

Peter J. Stewart-Hay
Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com

Hello,
I have been involved in drawing 5356 welding wire for 27 years. I have also visited other companies who do this. I have always seen an anneal at about 3,00mm in order to prevent wirebreaks as you describe. It is probably possible to ROLL the wire to 0,8mm without breaks but at that point it would have no ductility and it would not be useful for anything. I think you could not even bend it around a spool.
Chris